Meanwhile, at the Chinese-North Korean border…
StrategyPage and others have written about China’s border troubles with North Korea. Today the London Times publishes an informative and at times utterly graphic article. The article indicates China has deployed new military units in the border region.
Here’s the lede, and part of the more graphic description:
THE North Korean refugee had one request for her captors before the young Chinese soldiers led her back across the steel-girdered bridge on the Yalu River that divides two “socialist allies”.
“She asked for a comb and some water because she said that if she was going to die she could not face going to heaven looking as dirty and dishevelled as this,” recounted a relative of one soldier who was there.
What happened next is testimony to the rising disgust in Chinese military ranks as Beijing posts more troops to the border amid a crisis with North Korea over its regime’s plan to stage a nuclear test.
The soldiers, who later told family members of the incident, marched the woman, who was about 30, to the mid-point of the bridge. North Korean guards were waiting. They signed papers for receipt of the woman, who kept her dignity until that moment. Then, in front of the Chinese troops, one seized her and another speared her hand — the soft part between thumb and forefinger — with the point of a sharpened steel cable, which he twisted into a leash.
“She screamed just like a pig when we kill it at home in the village,” the soldier later told his relative. “Then they dragged her away.”
Such stories are circulating widely among Chinese on the border, where wild rumours of an American attack on nuclear test sites have spread fears of a Chernobyl-type cloud of radiation and sparked indignation at the North Koreans. “I’ve heard it a hundred times over that when we send back a group they stab each one with steel cable, loop it under the collarbone and out again, and yoke them together like animals,” said an army veteran with relatives in service.
China has previously allowed Western reporters to visit the border area, but this is a particularly gritty report (more than the usual “we’ve a refugee problem up here”). I suspect China is letting reporters operate on a longer leash– hence the access to troops in the border region. This sends a message to Pyongyang.
The Chinese are worried about a potential influx of North Korean refugees. They are also vexed with counterfeit US currency coming from North Korea and (quote) “…vast quantities of fake Viagra from North Korea.”
Fake cash and fake drugs — the exports of a failed state seeking nuclear weapons.
Note the article’s last line — South Korea fears that –in the midst of a Chinese-North Korean military confrontation– China may take a slice of Korean territory. It’s happened before.
The sense that Kim’s regime is losing control lies behind the Chinese military buildup. But some South Korean MPs fear China could grab territory from the north in the event of a collapse.
Read the entire article.
I just heard a television report that North Korea is “reconsidering” its threat to test a nuclear weapon. Pyongyang wants face to face negotiations with the US in return for no detonation. This is an NoKo old demand,
and a gimmick. The propaganda gimmick: if the US declines face to face negotiations then the NoKo test is the result of the US refusal. If the US agrees then Kim’s regime touts it as a huge dimplomatic victory, won by threatening nuclear war. In six or eight months, Pyongyang will pull the same extortion gambit once again.
Pyongyang has a lot to reconsider. China and Japan are holding very serious talks in Beijing, talks the Chinese had called “a turning point” in Chinese-Japanese relations.
From the Bloomberg report:
Japan and China agreed to improve frayed relations and said North Korea must not test a nuclear weapon in newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s first visit to Beijing.
China’s President Hu Jintao and Abe agreed that North Korea must return to six-party talks aimed at aimed at dismantling the country’s arms program, a Japanese government official said. North Korea on Oct. 3 said it would test a nuclear bomb, prompting a unanimous United Nations Security Council resolution urging Kim Jong Il’s government to abandon its plan…
Note China and Japan are insisting that North Korea return to the six party talks– in other words, they oppose North Korea’s demand for one on one talks with the US.
What claim does South Korea have to this “Korean” territory, when they often show not a whit of pitty for the Koreans living there.
Comment by ElamBend — 10/8/2006 @ 1:04 pm
[…] Courtesy of Austin Bay: […]
Pingback by NoisyRoom.net » Blog Archive » Meanwhile, at the Chinese-North Korean border… — 10/8/2006 @ 1:52 pm
The way I understand it South Korea has been generous in its help to N. Korea. They pay N. Korea to allow tourists from the south to visit relatives; they have established some industry in the North. The previous south Korean administration created a scandal by making secret payment to N. Korea. The claim that South has shown “not a whit of pity” for tkhe North is puzzling. What evidence does ElamBend have for that claim?
Comment by kieth nissen — 10/8/2006 @ 1:59 pm
Do they really have the ability to detonate an atomic bomb which may blow themselves up and annihilate North Korea? I think not. Even the dear leader won’t dare. It’s 4:00 pm (est) Sunday, end of the weekend. I haven’t heard any detonation yet.
Comment by ic — 10/8/2006 @ 2:03 pm
IC, do you honestly feel that one nuclear weapon, detonated under a mountain would be sufficient to “annihilate” N.Korea? As for what Kim would “dare”, don’t you realize that the “Dear Leader” doesn’t seem to flinch at forcing millions of his own people into starvation. He would detonate it on the surface if he thought it would give him the attention he desires. This guys a madman, a literal madman. There is really no bounds to what this guy is capable of. –Jason
Comment by Jason Coleman — 10/8/2006 @ 2:41 pm
I agree with Jason. The “Dear Leader” is indeed a madman as was his father. There is some rumors that he has syphillis and it has damaged his brain but how would one know. Maybe Hugo Chavez shared the same sex partner as he is in the same category as the dictator of North Korea. They’re both maniacs.
Comment by gene — 10/8/2006 @ 2:51 pm
From the bottom. First, the bomb would be detonated underground. North Korea is not a small place. It’s a little bigger than Pennsylvania, though it’s estimated population is much larger. (Approx. 20 million.) So there’s that and the fact that the rulers simply don’t care about the problems that will effect their people. I’d say Japan, who’s downwind, will be more concerned. South Korea doesn’t have a claim to the territory, outside of close ethno-cultural ties to the North. That’s why they both have “Korea” in their names. Which, incidentally, China doesn’t. I don’t think South Korea is concerned about whether or not they can take the territory themselves. I think the movement to unite the Koreas is really more symbolic than actual. If you thought East and West Germany had problems, that was a walk in the park compared to what North and South Korea would face, and I think most of them truly know that. I could be wrong. But what I’m certain about is that Asians as a whole are not nearly as ambivalent about China as western liberals. Most of them, for example, wouldn’t give China sensitive weapons technology in exchange for campaign contributions. The North Vietnamese were happy getting materiel from China, but they were not at all interested in having Chinese troops come down to go to war with America. They knew that if they really allowed much of that, China would simply grab the whole thing if it was successful. Better to lose the south to an American puppet, than become China’s pet. The Battle of the Yalu River in North Korea was a different take, because there, MacArthur (?) pushed the North Koreans out of Korea, back across the Yalu, which is China. So there wasn’t a choice. Our ambitions were to take Korea. We settled for half. In Viet Nam, our ambitions were to settle for half and we lost the whole thing. Actually, everybody lost the whole thing. Including the Vietnamese. In any event Kieth is correct. The South Koreans have tried to show plenty of pity. But arming the guy who wants to kill you is sorta foolish. It would be worse than, say, allowing foreign fundamentalists to stir up terrorism inside your borders and then give them the means and rights to do so. So there’s a limit to what can be done to help North Koreans… much that is done just goes into the madman’s pocket. Or Swiss accounts. Or into the rifles and nukes that the bouffanted nutboy keeps pointing your way. ED NOTE: Fine comment — thank you. NoKo’s population may be (I repeat, may be) 24 million. We don’t know for sure. South Korea’s population (according to a National Geographic map I was looking at this morning) is almost 49 million. As I recall, West Germany had roughly 65 million people in 1990 when it began to absorb East Germany’s 17 million. 16 years later, Federal Germany has almost “digested” the East, but not quite, and East Germany (compared to NoKo) was wealthy and healthy. South Korea’s absorption of North Korea might take four decades– and it would take a huge sacrifice by the South Koreans in terms of GDP (and at the individual level, a drastic cut in the material expectations of South Korean voters). If peace were guaranteed it might be worth it, but peace is never guaranteed.
Comment by Grayson — 10/8/2006 @ 3:03 pm
It is a genetic thing with Poofyhair, he got it from his Daddy. He got it from his mom and dad - Eleanor and Uncle Joe.
Comment by Yobseo — 10/8/2006 @ 3:04 pm
One of the most dangerous approaches to madmen is to believe that they are incapable of any sort of misjudgement. Kim is fully capable of doing whatever he wants to further his global ambitions - regardless of the effect on his subjects.
Comment by David Earney — 10/8/2006 @ 3:11 pm
Since Hiroshima, Nuclear weapons have always concentrated the mind. The US is not really threatened by NORK nukes without ICBM’S but Japan, China and ROK are mortally threatened by them. The US can hint to China and Japan that we will not tolerate a nuclear NORK. THE NORKS can threaten to sell them our use them. Norks win, everyone else loses. Say what you want about the Dear Leader, the man knows how to run a shake down.
Comment by changehappens — 10/8/2006 @ 3:35 pm
But the fact is that North Korea does have ICBMs. Their range is such that the only city they can reach in the continental US is Portland. But even Gentle Leader realizes that aside from turning Oregon into a Red State, the other predictable result would be the nuclear extirmination of his regime, even if Howard Dean or John Kerry were President. The two big sticks that North Korea holds over South Korea are the ability to level the north half of Seoul with conventional long range artillery and the cost of dealing with the starving survivors if the North Korean government were to go away.
Comment by Mark in Texas — 10/8/2006 @ 5:04 pm
Hey, isn’t this behavior against the Geneva Convention, Common Article Three? I’ll bet they’d stop if we quit interrogating people at Gitmo. There were fears that the first detonation of an atomic bomb would set the atmosphere on fire and kill us all. I think a North Korean bomb will implode the whole country like a black hole. It’s already a black hole in all but that final singularity.
Comment by AST — 10/8/2006 @ 6:54 pm
I would take these reports with a grain of salt. The story has one eyewitness. The other is reporting hearsay, and describes using the collarbone. It would be simpler to use handcuffs than to use steel cable through the hand…probably more effective, too. Now, that said, the NoKos are not nice people, so who knows.
Comment by Aaron — 10/8/2006 @ 9:33 pm
BREAKING: NORTH KOREA CONDUCTS NUCLEAR TEST… (I’ve gone back and forth between “BREAKING” to “REPORTS” on this headline. While it seems there is a lot of confirmation, still nothing for the Pentagon) *****MAJOR UPDATE - NORTH KOREA NOW CONFIRMS, SAYS TEST WAS SUCCESS***** SEOUL, South Korea….
Trackback by RightWinged.com — 10/8/2006 @ 9:34 pm
“Even the dear leader won’t dare. It’s 4:00 pm (est) Sunday, end of the weekend. I haven’t heard any detonation yet. Comment by ic” Can you hear it now? ED NOTE: And this is an example of why it’s never over ’til it’s over.
Comment by Mr. Forward — 10/9/2006 @ 4:18 am
North Korea Officially Joins Nuclear Club… North Korea has tested a nuclear weapon, becoming the eighth open member of the nuclear club. While merely confirming what was already considered a given, this still has enormous consequences, as David Sanger explains: North Korea’s decision to co…
Trackback by Outside The Beltway | OTB — 10/9/2006 @ 6:21 am
North Korea Officially Joins Nuclear Club… North Korea has tested a nuclear weapon, becoming the eighth open member of the nuclear club. While merely confirming what was already considered a given, this still has enormous consequences, as David Sanger explains: North Korea’s decision to co…
Trackback by Outside The Beltway | OTB — 10/9/2006 @ 6:21 am
[…] See this prior post for more background. […]
Pingback by Austin Bay Blog » North Korea tests nuke — 10/9/2006 @ 6:36 am
The real problem is Japan. Since WWII the Japanese have, for obvious reasons, been opposed to nuclear weapons. Once unthinkable, the Japanese government is now openly discussing developing its own nuclear strike capability - a task they could achieve quickly. The Japanese not only have the technology to build a modern weapon, they have adequate stocks of nuclear material. They are months away from joining the club. Taiwan may also decide to pursue nukes, using NoKo as an excuse. The big loosers here are North Korea, whose enconomy has for years been beyond collapse, and China. The Chinese failure to control Kim Jung Il’s nuclear program has destabilized their border and encouraged traditional enemies to also go nuke.
Comment by arch — 10/9/2006 @ 6:59 am
[…] Via Michelle: Austin Bay looked at trouble on the China/N. Korean border earlier today. See also StrategyPage and the London Times. […]
Pingback by Right Voices » Blog Archive » ALERT: North Korea Says Nuclear Test Successful !!!!!! — 10/9/2006 @ 7:04 am
Korean Nuclear Test Finally Edges Foley Story Out of the Limelight… Unhappily, the North Koreans have proceed with a nuclear bomb test. See AP report at Yahoo and BBC. The good news is that this will finally move the Foley story onto the back burner where it belongs; the bad news…
Trackback by The Lone Elm — 10/9/2006 @ 7:35 am
I wish the USA would grant asylum to all North Koreans who get to China, and increase aid by some $1000 for each North Korean. North Korean generals are waiting for the right time to have a coup. The US should be working with S. Korea and getting better human intel and contacts with the NoKo generals, in preparation. A Pinoceht style free-market authoritarianism could develop N. Korea really fast, with help from the South.
Comment by Tom Grey - Liberty Dad — 10/9/2006 @ 2:26 pm
RE: Collarbone. Not likely you can run a wire leash around the collarbone without killing somebody. The subclavian artery and vein run right along the bottom of it. Also, the apex of the lung is there. You would either collapse the lung or cause the thoracic cavity to fill up with blood. That kind of thing kills people.
Comment by k. pablo — 10/9/2006 @ 3:25 pm
That kind of thing kills people. I don’t think they really see that as a problem…
Comment by Purple Avenger — 10/9/2006 @ 6:18 pm
The point is even the Chinese believe the Norks capable of this sort of thing.
Comment by Grumpy Old Man — 10/9/2006 @ 8:38 pm
South Korea and the US should just put pressure on China to recognize all North Koreans who somehow reach China as refugees that are eligible for immediate resettlement in either the US or South Korea. Great way to make North Korea lose face, and from a humanitarian aspect the right thing to do. The issue is China so far has not wanted to do it, South Korea really does not want it to happen. I have no idea why the US has not pressed this. China and South Korea because they fear a collapse of North Korea. Embargo on North Korea risks collapse, so I don’t see this happening. US ships checking everything leaving North Korea will probably happen. Some UN resolution that is meaningless with a NK leader who cares only about keeping power. Beyond that unfortunately locally, just an increase in the local conventional arms race for the moment, more anti-missile development, and a lot of hot air on how bad North Korea is for being Nuclear. Out of area, Iran going Nuclear. And more pressure on a more robust ABM defense in the US.
Comment by Ray — 10/11/2006 @ 11:15 pm
Now that’s a Surprise! Kim Jong Il actually apologized for North Korea for conducting nuclear testing?!! He said he didn’t have plans to test anymore. Something just doesn’t sound right about that one.
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Comment by Hair loss — 6/28/2007 @ 5:49 am